We are talking about a Creator (of a unimaginably large universe), so referring to the Bible to authenticate God wrestling has no merit. It is not about Quran, but the immense universe which is a fact, and whether it came about by itself or has a designer behind it.

 

Yes Abraham was a prophet but also a human and needed reassurance.  There is nothing wrong with that.

 

Your statement that stories about angels, heaven and hell are childish is again a personal opinion without any reason or evidence and has to be discarded, just like the irrelevant story about the teacup because it has nothing to do with the subject. The story on its own has merit but not within the context, because we are not talking about objects that are claimed to exist and cannot be proved otherwise - we are talking about the fact that since there is a designer behind everything we see (paintings, cars, furniture and everything else) it follows that there must be a designer behind the universe, which we can also see.

 

Even though you don't see the painter actually painting Mona Lisa, you know it was not created by itself by an explosion in a paint factory.  This is simple logic I hope you can see. So if everything we can comprehend has a designer, why make nature and the universe an exception? It is illogical and irrational to do so.

 

>First of all the (cause-effect) only occurs in time and since time itself was a product of Big Bang, its meaningless in scientific terms to talk about cause at all. That's where scientific inquiry ends <

 

That is where the error in logic lies.The word 'only' above is your opinion. Cause effect occurs in time, does not mean before the advent of time there was no cause and effect. Things do not get created by themselves .. tell me of one thing that was created by itself. Since you cannot, the conclusion is that everything created, had a creator behind it. Every design has a designer behind it.

 

We cannot define God and no one is attempting to do so. When we cannot imagine the greatness of the universe how can we imagine the greatness of the Creator? That is why stories like God wrestling with humans is primitive stupidity. In that, I have to agree with Ms. Farzana.

 

Questions like God cannot be outside time and do things in time, and who created God cannot be answered by infinitesimal creatures like us because we have not been created with the necessary specifications to do so, only the specifications that we need in accordance with the purpose of the Manufacturer.  If you manufactured TV's, you would make TV's that followed instructions .. responded to commands to change channels, display pictures etc. You would not create a TV that first asked the question of you 'tell me who created you, then I will change the channel'. The TV's are not built that way because the manufacturer does not need those kind of TV's.  Similarly we have not been created with the specs to answer or understand certain questions.

 

We can only imagine things that have been created, so we cannot imagine how God, the creator, could not have been created.

 

This does not mean we cannot draw analogies to understand how this could be possible.

 

Controlling the time barrier from outside:

We cannot think outside the time barrier.

Suppose you are looking down on a mansion with several rooms, and you can see through the roof.  Each room is a different 'time' zone, and you can see across all the times -  in the earlier rooms you can see Adam, Noah and Abraham and in later rooms you can see Napolean, Einstein, Kennedy and Obama. You are outside the 'time' zone but can see and even affect the 'time' by rearranging furniture in the rooms. 

 

Who created God:

Our minds cannot comprehend infinity

Suppose god was created by god1.  Who created god1, god2 did. Then who created god2, well god3 did. Who created god3, god4  .. and we go on and on and on.  We find that we end up with an infinity of 'gods'.  An infinity of 'gods' is the same as one infinite god.  And that is what God is, infinite.  .

 

Feroz