ALL SECULAR PAKISTANIS NEED TO UNITE 

Family of the Heart - DIALOGUE & DISCUSSIONS 

Dear Mr. Joyce:

 

Please note that my recent two posts #81 and 82 are not addressed to you and were not attempts to address any of the issues or questions that you may have raised. These posts discuss international affairs that are of interest to me and many other FOTH members.

 

However, I did start writing a reply to your post #76, but never completed it and went on to other things. Reading your post #76 closely, I was very discouraged to note a very large gap between our understandings of several socio-political issues and the world view and appears to be insurmountable. For example half the world is going up side down because of American hegemony and imperialism, but you have casually rejected it by saying that no such thing exists. My incomplete response to your post #76 is copied below as Appendix A.

 

In your latest post #83, you have complained that the questions or concerns raised by yourself have not met appropriate response – you may be right to some extent. But allow me to point out a practical problem. You are opening too many fronts of attack at the same time, as a result, none of the topics will get due attention and in time the discussion keeps getting more and more complex. We don’t have to agree with each other but al least we should have clear idea of what we are agreeing to disagree.

 

You claim that you have given facts or reasons to back up your opinions. Well, has this crossed your mind that what you call a fact or a reason could be your own assertion in view of your perception of the issue in question while others may have different explanation for same? Let me summarize and make a list of views, opinions, questions and concerns that have been discussed, as follows:

 

Christian and Islamic Fundamentalism - You claim that the two are different. I say they may be or may not be, but how can we tell until we define what exactly do we mean by the term, ‘fundamentalism’? Would you care to define it?

American Imperialism – You claim that there is no such thing as American imperialism. I strongly disagree with you. The invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan are direct result of it. Moreover, the American history of the last 100 years is full of additional examples of the American Empire.

American Hegemony – You call it nonsense. When you deny the existence of some thing so obvious, it closes the door for any further discussion on the subject. How much do you know about CIA and what do you think they do all around the globe?

Iraqi Invasion and Death Count – You have objection to the figure of 1 million dead, 5 million made orphans and same number made homeless. Then, let us have your figures. BUT, that is not really all that important, tell us what is your perception about the America’s reason and motivation for invading Iraq? The rivalry between Sunnins and Shias does exist but there was no wholesale killings and out of control sectarian riots until the American State Funded Terrorism arrived at the scene. Can you explain the phenomenon?

Afghanistan and the Pipeline – Now that the whole world agrees on what I have stated, but obviously you don’t, but you have not supported your views with any tenable argument either. Would you share your thought as to why exactly the Americans are in Afghanistan?

The Old Book: Perhaps you are referring to 1400 years old Quran. Are you saying that its ok if Bible is used, as being used by many in Washington DC? Have you read and understood Quran? Are you sure those in Afghanistan (Taliban in particular) actually go by Quran or some thing entirely different? Are you aware that many religious claims made by Muslims around the world and Taliban in Afghanistan are not supported by Quran?  

 

I have compartmentalized various aspects of what has been discussed in the current round of dialogue and hope that we do not wander all over the map and spread ourselves thin whereby writing a lot without saying much. You can discuss any or all of the areas listed above but let us try and keep them separate in the hope of making more sense keeping the confusion to a minimum.

 

Below is my incomplete response to your post #76 under Appendix A

 

Regards,

 

Javed I. Chaudry

Feb 28, 2009

 

 

Appendix A

 

 

Dear Mr. Joyce,

 

My first post #64  for the FOTH discussion was in response to your patronizing stance in favor of the Americans when discussing post-war American-Japanese relationship. In your post #76, you have maintained that posture.

 

In connection with American invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, your narratives are more in line with the American pretences and have very little to do with the reality on ground. In other words, you are totally and completely missing the real reason for the invasions – the imperialism.

 

At this juncture, I think it will be useful if I introduce my own beliefs and values in connection with the international affairs only in an effort to make the point that my criticism or analysis is not based on prejudice or malice against any nation or ideology. I am merely attempting to call a spade a spade.

 

I am neither a supporter of socialist system, nor against capitalism. Both economic systems offer good and bad attributes. Furthermore, I do not care much for the political Left, Right, Liberal or Conservative thought. This jargon keeps changing its meanings and its impact on life. I have never been a member of any political party, nor have plans to join one. America is being run on capitalist values to a point of being capitalist extremism, Russians ran their economic affairs on socialist lines with vigor and extremism for 70 years. Both systems have flaws and faults and the consequences are now obvious. Britain, the Scandinavian countries and Canada are being run on economic systems which comprise both the capitalist and socialistic values. I support such systems over others. I am not anti this or anti that. When I criticize a political party or a country, the criticism is based on specified areas, citing reasons and the areas of concern defined. My criticism of America is mainly due to its imperialism and hegemony that relates to its foreign policies. A handful few people out of its population of 300 million people are involved in such decisions, a vast majority of the Americans are not even aware of the mischief their leaders are causing around the globe.

 

You appear to be under the impression that America has some kind of God given rights and authority to attack any country at will. Your unfailing patronizing of America seems to indicate that a country turns into a superior place after having been raided by the Americans. It is true, Japan has changed in some ways, but as I wrote in my last post, most societies have changed in their behaviour and their value system. The whole world is changing and will keep on changing.

 

Let me give you an interesting example of the changing world and its values. Gandhi was visiting England during early part of the last century and went to a barber shop for hair cut. The barber threw him out of the shop and told him that he could loose his clientele as no Englishman would like to get a haircut with a scissor that had been used to cut a brown skinned man’s hair. So Gandhi bought a pair of scissors to give himself a haircut. They don’t do it now in England as the society has changed, so have many social values and that happened without America having to invade England.

 

You have referred to what I wrote about England in my last post. In fact it was just one or two lines that I wrote in the passing, only to compare societies for a given time period without going into details or specifics. What I wrote is a historical fact, but some how you have decided to disagree. I did not imply that slavery was the only factor involved in the British economical development.

 

You have suggested for me to read Voltaire to know about England. Now that is a strange suggestion. Voltaire (b.1694, d.1778) even before the French revolution and much before the time of England’s imperialism in the Indian subcontinent. The British presence in the Americas was still a novelty, not much was known about the new world to many in Europe. The gold and silver had not yet started flowing into Europe in a big way. I don’t see how Voltaire’s plays would help me to know more about England.

 

Coming back to the real subject, ‘the American imperialism’, you are surprised to see that so many FOTH participants are accepting the notion unquestioningly. I am really astonished at your surprise. How can you miss some thing that is out there and staring at you in broad day light?

 

What you have written about Afghanistan, clearly tells me that you have absolutely no idea of what is happening there and why.

 

Lets not mislay sight of the real issue or the subject of the dialogue, which is, your perception that American imperialism does not exist. It is your denial of such a stark naked truth that has attracted me to jump into the discussion. Your description of American invasion of Afghanistan has clearly demonstrated that your information about the facts is rather sketchy. Below is a paragraph copied from your last post:

 

Even Afghanistan is complex enough. Let me simplify matters a little, purely through expediency. I am not concerned with the US invasion of Afghanistan beginning in 2001; rather, I shall focus on the more recent multi-nation engagement. The two are naturally related, and the former largely led to the latter. However, I think most people would agree that the motives and the scope of the two differ somewhat. This separation should not suggest that I opposed the US invasion. On the contrary, I supported it almost one hundred percent.

 

You appear to be under the impression that the US and NATO forces’ presence in Afghanistan represent two different events and driven by different objectives or caused by different reasons.

 

NATO is engaged in supporting the US hegemony because, the UN had blessed the US with the sanction after 9/11 to invade Afghanistan to hunt for Bin Laden. NATO joined the American forces because of the UN sanction. It is a different matter to establish whether or not the UN had legitimate grounds to allow such an action. Technically, the state of Afghanistan did not invade USA. The event of 9/11 was an act of terrorism and not an act of war. No proof has yet been put forward to date as to who was behind the attacks. It is an American claim that Bin Laden and his boys planed and executed the 9/11 carnage. A mere claim cannot be entertained as a proof. The world has seen many claims made by various US administrations at different times which have been proven to be false and deceitful.

 

It is a well known fact that the Americans had tried to negotiate for a gas/oil pipeline with the Taliban during their rule of Afghanistan prior to 9/11. As the negotiations did not go well with the Americans, they decided to invade Afghanistan using 9/11 as an excuse. But the whole world knows that the real American interest lies in its plans for the pipeline by bringing Afghanistan and Pakistan under its control by hook or by crook – simply put the American imperialism in action in all its military colours.

 

In their desperation, the US is now expanding its hegemony by attacking parts of neighboring Pakistani tribal areas (FATA). Pakistan was black mailed and being coerced to make the American war Pakistan’s own. With all this known, I fail to see how can any one refuse to accept the existence of American imperialism.

 

Javed I. Chaudry

 

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