As often, it was amusing rather than illuminating to read Rashid Mughal’s response. First he entangles himself in a spider’s web, and confuses the word “agnostic” with much else. Then, after agreeing that we cannot say goodbye to God “on behalf of God Almighty's countless hosts of conditioned souls comprising the human race” he repeats his question at the end “Can we say goodbye to God”. So let me repeat, if “we” is not the human race, what does “we” mean? Sure, many people can say “goodbye to God” as they have on this forum, including those who call themselves atheists. As a self-proclaimed “rationalist”, it might be best for Rashid Mughal also to say “goodbye to God”, since it is difficult, if not impossible, to find God through reason alone. But Rashid Mughal is not “WE”. As an agnostic who continues to seek, I personally am not ready to say “Goodbye to God”.   

But at least equally important was the point I made that the rebellion against organized religions was a rebellion against “positional power”. Sometimes this is against people who “told us” what to do in our childhood; at other times, it is rebellion against humans who claim to have all the answers. Since Rashid did not respond to this comment, I invite other friends to respond. 

For those still seeking, I believe we can learn much from what psycho-spiritual teachers call the stages of spiritual growth, whether it is the stages referred to by M. Scott Peck and other contemporary authors, or it is the stages for more advanced seekers like Sufis. Some of you may remember my paper on this subject at the last seminar, whose link is given below:   

http://familyofheart.com/June0505/Masud_sheikh.htm 

For the large majority of ordinary humans like me, I believe it is difficult to have direct exposure to G-d, and we may only be able to “see God” through those who are more evolved. Here is a quotation from Rumi’s Masnavi, which may be the way for most people to experience God:  

When a lamp has derived its light from a candle, every one that sees it (the lamp) certainly sees the candle. If transmission of the light occurs in this way till a hundred lamps are lighted, the seeing of the last lamp becomes a meeting with the original light. Either take with all your soul from the hindmost light - there is no difference - or from the candelabrum. 

Either behold the light of God from the lamp of the last saints, or behold His light from the candle of those who have gone before. 

My best wishes to all of you

Masud Sheikh            

The United States is a monster out of control. Unless we challenge it, it will destroy the world - Harold Pinter